Curse

legacyofkain85 · May 09, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

PvE isn't a challenge even without Ursan. Or PvE skills. Or consumables.

Dont know what some people consider a challenge,maybe they should add ¨must die mode¨all mobs do fatal dmg(kill´s u instantly) with all their skills and atacks maybe.Probably that would be a challenge.

DarkNecrid · May 09, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

Dont know what some people consider a challenge,maybe they should add ¨must die mode¨all mobs do fatal dmg(kill´s u instantly) with all their skills and atacks maybe.Probably that would be a challenge.

never lose even a single player.

edit: then again i run fun builds in PvE because I don't care if I die in it LOL

oliverrr1989 · May 09, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

This is gonna be an interesting update for sure. I just hope they increase the usefulness of some assassin and mesmer skills in PvE, so people actually take them in groups :P

Once they've buffed/reverted enough PvE skills, then they can nerf Ursan beyond repair and everyones happy!

Taurucis · May 09, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Because some people back then didn't like this suggestion. Is that hard to understand?

Can't I make snarky comments without people interrupting me? Sheesh.

Apparently, the majority seems in favor of the PvE and PvP separation...

Inde · May 09, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to swallow that we could claim that GW would be one of the first MMORPG's (or CORPG's) out there to achieve balance...by eliminating the need for balance. Seems like a cop out.

Just as a um.. side note. That's not what I said at all. I said that this is the first time that it might have a chance to be balanced and thought I was clear adding in the "only referring to GW" part. I wasn't referring to other MMOG's.

Kashrlyyk · May 09, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

...
I wouldn't quite go that far. But I would say that a good implementation of this split, followed by a real commitment to fixing what's broken in PvE (starting with Soul Reaping) would be enough to put me back in the boat.

I am a little easier satisfied. I wrote in the official wiki in the underpowered skills section, that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

At this point I would want ANet to remove all the Elite energy management skills (or all underpowered/unused skills) from PvP and make them usable in PvE. Then the PvP players can have their balance and PvE players can have their fun.

So if the make the Elite energy skills useable in PvE again, so you have a choice of what you take with you, then I am in the boat again.

Edit: As long as it is handled the same in GW2. Always those limitations.

Mewcatus · May 09, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Thus:
1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns.

It doesn't update until you reboot Guild Wars.

What do u mean ? I only said to alter the skill sets BEFORE u enter a dungeon, the change ONLY affects ur skill sets, NOT the monsters skill sets. WHY the heck should the monsters get the "nerfed" PvP skill set ?

Quote:
2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want

"Training" won't work if these skills are all different, effect-wise.

YES it does, in general, PvP skill sets are just more watered down versions of PvE skill sets. Choosing to pit urself with a PvP Skill set against Monsters which use a PvE skill set, creates a artifical HARDER difficulty, don't you think ?

Quote:
THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are )

Wrong. PvX players will have to get used to 2 seperate sets of skills.

WRONG, PvX players can JUST CHOOSE to use PvP Skill set ALL the way within the dungeon, if they want to get use to the feel of the skills. And DON'T complain that monsters using PvE skill sets will make it completedly different because, in the 1st place, PvE mosnters ALREADY have different specialised "monster" skills and differing amounts of MP and HP, as well as resistances.

Quote:
HEY ! This is between YOU and YOUR Guild mates ! YOU / YOUR Guild mates CAN choose to gimp or pump the skills sets for whatever PvE difficulty you deem fit.

Yeah, well that won't change the fact that the AI is miserably stupid.

Sure its miserable, then simply choose to use "Godly" PvE Skill sets to boost your pleasure of playing. I only stated this to players who think PvE skills should not be "buffed" again, making game play too easy. TRUE, it is easier for you, so stick to using the PvP skill set which you say gives you a harder challenge.

NOT all players are 1337 type of hardcorers. If you WANT a challenge, you can choose to stick to your rules, JUST don't impose YOUR rule on ME.

HawkofStorms · May 09, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Can't I make snarky comments without people interrupting me? Sheesh.

Apparently, the majority seems in favor of the PvE and PvP separation...

You see, I'm not so sure. When they did a poll for this a few months ago, the results were the EXACT opposite, with like 80% against the idea and 20% for it. Now that it is being done, there are a lot more people flip-floping and going along with a.net (*cough fanboyism*).

Edit: @Mewcatus, please take your post to the Suggestion forum and put it there. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand (which is about discussing what will be done, not your suggestion for how it could be changed).

moriz · May 09, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

i'm not too sure...

on one hand, anet is now free to balance pvp with no worries about pve impact.

on the other hand, we now essentially have two games instead of one. i've always maintained that anet was trying to make GW into too many things at once. maybe this update will be the last straw that really DOES seperate the game into pieces. who knows.

Alexandra-Sweet · May 09, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Question, if you are in your Guild Hall (since it is the staging area for GvG) will you see the PvP version of the skills? Because that could be a problem since so many people meet at their GH to ferry to some PvE location.

They will probably display both, or have an option to display one another.
Example:

Mending
PvE:
Enchantment Spell. +1...5 Health Regeneration.

PvP:
Enchantment Spell +1...3 Health Regeneration

super strokey · May 09, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

wow this is fantastic, hope they bring back ritual lord! All the old builds that were nerfed cause of PVP now stand a chance,

Rit lord
Soul reaping
etc... im gonna be back to playing the game in not time at all! woot!

Jenn · May 09, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

PvE isn't a challenge even without Ursan. Or PvE skills. Or consumables.

I would agree that you can do anything PvE in this game without said aids, but I would like to see you do a HM dungeon or HM DoA and call it easy. I think even the best PvE groups out there know to be cautious and attentive in areas like that

. For me, the difference between using consets or not is just speed. Why do a dungeon in 2 hours if I can do it in 1.5? I think Ursan makes people play stupid sometimes, but not using a celerity in FoW is just boring. I don't like running slow!

legacyofkain85 · May 09, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Just so you know Anet, if you un-nerf a bunch of PvE skills and make this game even more trivially easy than it is now, you've not only lost a GW player, you've lost a potential GW2 customer.

I dont have anything against u, but tbh im beginning to get sick of people saying they wont buy gw 2 after anet implements an update,heard people, threat with rage quiting from gw after nerfs to ,yet i bet the majority of them are still playing the game.

MagmaRed · May 09, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

PvE isn't a challenge even without Ursan. Or PvE skills. Or consumables.

That is true, but only for the people who have played a long time, have multiple skills unlocked, and know the skills monsters use. Not everyone has played long enough to be able to say that though. New people who have a W/Mo and an E/Me won't do well with no Necro, Rit, Ranger, Sin, Derv, and Para skills to give to heroes. They may not know skills to use in their own builds (W/Mo can't get Eviscerate until Hells or Sorrows, a place a new player won't reach quickly). New players also may not know about Balthazar Faction unlocks or skill tomes. They may not own more than 1 game, or even have heroes yet.

I remember a post here about 2 months ago from someone asking why the game was so hard. Perhaps you think they were lying, and they had an easy time playing?

I am excited about the possibilities this offers. I am also scared of the possibilities this offers. I will have to wait and see how Anet plays their cards before I decide to be excited or scared.

Divine Slaya · May 09, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Just so you know Anet, if you un-nerf a bunch of PvE skills and make this game even more trivially easy than it is now, you've not only lost a GW player, you've lost a potential GW2 customer.

Unfortunately, you are a very small percentage of the PvE community that realizes this. They can't tolerate change because that means they have to actually think of a way to complete a mission rather than flying through it with their typical builds. As a PvPer I always enjoyed skill balance because it changes the way you approach the game and it's a challenge to come up with a new build that works.

Overall, I'm really happy this update is coming - it's just overdue.

Symeon · May 09, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by skanvak

Why people can't see that it is the worst move ever possible? ...I really cannot understand all the people applauding about it.

Because this is a PvE forum, and in this forum PvE players have whined about skill update after skill update 'nerfing' their builds. Now they applaud this update because it means their builds will never be 'nerfed' again. They don't care one iota about being separated from PvP. Those who play PvE and PvP are a minority, but naturally they are the ones opposing or sceptical about this update.

I don't disagree with you by the way.

Mewcatus · May 09, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

As I said though, how the HECK are you supposed to run in parties with OTHER PEOPLE! How in the world does it make sense for you to be running the "PvE" version of a skill but have a teammate running the "PvP" version of the same skill? What skills do the monsters get then, the PvE or PvP version? Your suggestion is like saying people should be able to run NM and HM at the same time. In theory, it would please everybody. Its implimintation however, wouldn't really work.

Monsters get PvE skill sets. ( WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY GET THE PVP SKILL SETS? THEY ARE PVE MONSTERS FOR PETE SAKE! ) Since it IS already embbed into the system that PvP and PvE skill sets exists separatedly, I don't SEE why it is so difficult.

Tyla · May 09, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

What do u mean ? I only said to alter the skill sets BEFORE u enter a dungeon, the change ONLY affects ur skill sets, NOT the monsters skill sets. WHY the heck should the monsters get the "nerfed" PvP skill set ?

What do you mean? If PvE'ers gain in having an easier game, wouldn't you be happy that enemies have weaker skills?
Make your mind up, player or enemy, easier or harder?

Quote:

YES it does, in general, PvP skill sets are just more watered down versions of PvE skill sets. Choosing to pit urself with a PvP Skill set against Monsters which use a PvE skill set, creates a artifical HARDER difficulty, don't you think ?

How do you know PvP skill sets are watered down versions? Inside info?
And the enemies still have the stupid AI.

Quote:

WRONG, PvX players can JUST CHOOSE to use PvP Skill set ALL the way within the dungeon, if they want to get use to the feel of the skills. And DON'T complain that monsters using PvE skill sets will make it completedly different because, in the 1st place, PvE mosnters ALREADY have different specialised "monster" skills and differing amounts of MP and HP, as well as resistances.

They change depending on if you're in PvE or PvP says the note.
How can they just choose if the area decides?

Again, enemies still have the same AI.

Quote:

Sure its miserable, then simply choose to use "Godly" PvE Skill sets to boost your pleasure of playing. I only stated this to players who think PvE skills should not be "buffed" again, making game play too easy. TRUE, it is easier for you, so stick to using the PvP skill set which you say gives you a harder challenge.

NOT all players are 1337 type of hardcorers. If you WANT a challenge, you can choose to stick to your rules, JUST don't impose YOUR rule on ME.

A few things wrong with this: If heroes can't use skill sets properly, what makes you think that the enemy AI can?
And again, the area decides on the type of skill judging from the notes.

And yeah, just because I know that the AI is stupid doesn't mean I'm a "1337 hardcore player".
It's not exactly rocket science.

And also, you don't change your enemies' skillsets.

And before you mention it again: Heroes cannot handle alot of skillsets, what makes you think that the enemy AI would?
And you can't change your skillset either, it is based on the area being PvE or PvP if you look at the notes.

Rocky Raccoon · May 09, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

A while back, people were suggesting that PvE and PvP skills were separated... now it's happening, so why is there still complaining?

Because that is the Guru way of things. I say give it a chance to see what affect it has and then voice an opinion, instead of making a bunch of presumptions.

super strokey · May 09, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Am i the only person who still has troubles with GW in hardmode? honestly? Cause i die lots lol